One of the more interesting passages in Pope Francis’s television interview on Sunday was his statement that sins of the flesh are less damaging than “angelic” sins, such as lying or committing fraud.

Speaking to Italian journalist Fabio Fazio on the show Che Tempo Che Fa, Francis said the “most serious sins” are those of which angels are capable.

“Sins of the flesh have less ‘angelicality.’ Sins of gluttony, sexual sins have less ‘angelicality.’ Instead, not taking care of dad and mom, lies, fraud … these have so much ‘angelicality.’ We must be respectful and not put everything in the sins of the flesh,” the pope told Fazio.

“It disgusts me when some people always look for that in confession. Sins of the flesh have less ‘angelicality,’ but don’t forget the others. It is so wrong not to take care of dad and mom, so wrong. They have more ‘angelicality.’ This is the key to understanding a serious sin,” Francis said.

Of course, the pope later stated that sexual abuse is different from other “sins of the flesh,” saying it was “a very great evil.”

“Consider that more or less 40 percent [of abuse cases] are in the family, in the neighborhood. Boys and girls are always at risk of being abused. And we have to fight for this,” he said.

Since Vatican II, there has been a common refrain from Church officials and the theologians who say too much attention is paid to “below the belt” issues, especially after Pope Paul VI issued the encyclical Humanae Vitae in 1968, which confirmed Catholic teachings against birth control, sterilization, and abortion.

Yet, the most famous line of Pope Francis was when he said, “Who am I to judge?” after being asked about a gay priest appointed to an important Vatican post.

The case that prompted his “Who am I to judge?” remark, however, points to the problems with viewing “below the belt” issues as unimportant. Monsignor Battista Ricca – the priest Francis was questioned about – was accused, among other things, of being found trapped in an elevator in Uruguay with a young male prostitute. Putting aside the truth of the claim, the fact is that “young male prostitutes” are not really consenting adults – they are most often victims of some sort of modern slavery and under the control of pimps.

And this has been a constant issue within the present pontificate (and previous ones, as well) – strong policies are issued, but, at the same time, an attitude of “boys will be boys” is often displayed.

More charitably, Francis has often seemed to favor the protests of accused clergy – who, after all, have more face-to-face meetings with the pope – over the accusations of their victims.

In Chile in 2018, the pope strongly resisted accusations against Bishop Juan Barros, who was said to have witnessed abuse committed by Father Fernando Karadima – a powerful and popular Chilean celebrity priest – who was later punished for serial sexual abuse.

Francis said the accusations against the bishop were “calumny.”

“There is not one single piece of proof against him. It is all slander. Is that clear?” the pope said.

The pontiff later apologized for his remarks, and ordered an investigation of abuse accusations in Chile.

Bishop Gustavo Óscar Zanchetta of Argentina was one of the first raised to the episcopate by Francis after his election. In the summer of 2017, he stepped aside citing “a health problem.” Later that year, he was appointed assessor of the Administration of the Patrimony of the Apostolic See (APSA), the Vatican’s “central bank.”

However, it turns out allegations of sexual impropriety had been made against Zanchetta several times, beginning some two years before his resignation ostensibly for reasons of ill health, and several years before formal accusations reached the Vatican no later than early January, 2019.

On May 28, 2019, Francis told the Mexican television station Televisa that Zanchetta had defended himself against the earlier allegations by saying his cell phone had been hacked.

“So, in the face of evidence and a good defense, the doubt remains, but in doubt, for the accused,” he said.

The most notorious example is that of ex-priest and ex-Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, who was accused of several sexual crimes. Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò in 2018 claimed he told the pope about the allegations in 2013.

“I don’t remember if [Viganò] spoke to me about this,” Francis said in the same Televisa interview.

“If it is true or not, I have no idea! But you know that I didn’t know anything about McCarrick; otherwise, I would not have stayed quiet,” the pope added.

Viganò has since made further accusations against the pope – many of them quite strange – and was excommunicated by the Vatican last year for schism. When Viganò says he first brought accusations against McCarrick, however, Viganò was serving as the Apostolic Nuncio to the United States.

These sorts of a strong benefit of the doubt towards clerics with connections to the pope continue to happen.

Father Marko Rupnik, a former Jesuit, has been accused by numerous women of sexual abuse.

Rupnik is an artist whose mosaics decorate churches and basilicas around the world, including the Vatican. He was excommunicated in 2020 for a confession-related crime, but quickly reinstated, although this is often done quickly after a person repents.

He was kicked out of the Jesuits for disobedience – not directly for the “credible accusations” of sexual abuse by adult women lodged against him – but was then welcomed to serve as a priest of the Diocese of Koper in his native Slovenia. He is still a priest in good standing, and still residing in Rome.

Rupnik’s artwork is still all over the Vatican, and even features on the Vatican’s official news website.

When asked about this in the United States last year, the head of the Vatican Communications office, Dr. Paolo Ruffini, said, “Who am I to judge the Rupnik stories?”

Sound familiar?

The pooh-poohing of “below the belt” issues often leads to ignoring the real pain they cause (often to the point of being crimes), especially among the victims.

The hurt and mental damage that surround the “sins of the flesh” are why the angels – both the good ones and the bad ones – might show interest.

Follow Charles Collins on X: @CharlesinRome