Crux

[Editor’s Note: These are the fourth excerpts of a two-part interview between Pope Leo XIV and Crux Senior Correspondent Elise Ann Allen contained in her new biography of the pontiff, León XIV: ciudadano del mundo, misionero del siglo XXI, or “Leo XIV: Citizen of the World, Missionary of the XXI Century.” The book is published in Spanish by Penguin Peru and will be available for purchase in stores and online Sept. 18. English and Portuguese editions will be available in early 2026.]

Allen: How does that apply to the Middle East right now, and specifically to Gaza, where the situation seems to be escalating rather than deescalating? What hope can there be in that situation? What space is there for dialogue at this point?

That’s a very difficult question. Even with some pressure, I don’t know how great it’s been behind the scenes, but even from the United States, which is obviously the most significant third party that can place pressure on Israel, in this case. Even with some very clear statements being made by the United States government, recently by President Trump, there has not been a clear response in terms of finding effective ways to alleviate the suffering of the people, the innocent people in Gaza, and that is obviously of great concern.

It’s going to be very difficult because some of the people, especially children, when people go into not only deprivation but of actual starvation, just to receive food doesn’t immediately solve the problem. They’re going to need a lot of help, medical assistance as well as humanitarian aid, to really turn that situation around, and right now it still looks very, very grave. The word genocide is being thrown around more and more. Officially, the Holy See does not believe that we can make any declaration at this time about that. There’s a very technical definition about what genocide might be, but more and more people are raising the issue, including two human rights groups in Israel have made that statement.

It’s just so horrible to see the images that we see on television, hopefully something will turn this around. Hopefully we won’t grow numb. That’s sort of a human response because you can only stand so much pain, so the numbness is a way of just deadening the nerves and saying, ‘I can’t take anymore’, so it stops. I think certainly human beings, and as a Christian response, we can’t grow numb, and we can’t ignore this. Somehow, we have to continue to push, to try and make a change there.

Another global player that a lot of people are watching right now in terms of the influence it has is China. Pope Francis and many of your predecessors have adopted an Ostpolitik approach. Do you know yet what your own approach to engagement with China will be?

No. I would say that in the short term, I will continue the policy that the Holy See has followed for some years now, and it’s been several predecessors. I in no way pretend to be wiser or more experienced than all those who have come before me. I’m also in ongoing dialogue with a number of people, Chinese, on both sides of some of the issues that are there. I’m trying to get a clearer understanding of how the church can continue the church’s mission, respecting both culture and political issues that have obviously great importance, but also respecting a significant group of Chinese Catholics who for many years have lived some kind of oppression or difficulty in living their faith freely, and without choosing sides.

The Ostpolitik, the choices that have been made to say in a realistic way, ‘this is what we can do right now, moving towards the future’, I’m certainly taking that into consideration, along with other experiences that I’ve had previously in dealing with Chinese people, in government as well as religious leaders and lay people. It’s a very difficult situation. In the long term, I don’t pretend to say this is what I will and will not do, but after two months, I’ve already begun having discussions at several levels on that topic.

Also on the geopolitical level, there’s been a lot of noise about you being the first pope from the United States, and whether that might make a difference. Do you think it makes a difference?

First of all, I hope that it will make a difference eventually with the bishops in the United States. Without going into recent history and reasons which I don’t even pretend to understand fully, of some of the things that have been said about the episcopacy in the United States and the relationship between church and politics. The fact that I am American means, among other things, people can’t say, like they did about Francis, ‘he doesn’t understand the United States, he just doesn’t see what’s going on’. I think that’s significant in this case.

I don’t plan to get involved in partisan politics. That’s not what the Church is about. But I’m not afraid to raise issues that I think are real Gospel issues, that hopefully people on both sides of the aisle, as we say, will be able to listen to. One of the last conversations I had with the Vice President of the United States – I have not had direct conversations with or have not met the President – I talked about human dignity and how important that is for all people, wherever you’re born, and hopefully to find ways to respect human beings and the way we treat them in the policies and choices we make. Obviously, there’s some things going on in the States that are of concern. We continue to look for ways to at least respond and raise some of the questions that need to be asked.

You said you have not met the President of the United States, Donald Trump, yet, but wherever you stand politically, he is a phenomenon that people around the world are trying to understand and interact with at a political level. Do you think you have a better shot at engaging him as an American?

Not necessarily. I think that it would be much more appropriate for the leadership in the Church within the United States to engage him, quite seriously. I would say that about any government. Again, I have met a lot of world leaders, and there are significant issues that can be raised, but it would be impossible for the pope to get involved in individual countries around the world, to say, ‘this is what you should be doing, that’s what you should be thinking’.

Something that Francis did towards the end of his pontificate, which I think was very significant, was the letter he wrote about the issue of the treatment of immigrants. I was very happy to see how the American bishops picked that up, and some of them were courageous enough to go with that. I think that approach, in general, is a better approach, that I would engage with the bishops primarily.

President Trump made a statement last week about [how] he didn’t have it on his agenda to want to meet me, and then he said, ‘but his brother’s a nice guy’, and that’s fine. One of my brothers has met him and has been very outspoken about his political viewpoints. But if or when there were specific issues that, if it were possible to engage with him, I would have no problem doing so. I think there are others who are doing that role fine, and he makes his choices, who he listens to and who he doesn’t listen to. But to continue to raise some of the issues, especially about questions of human dignity, of promoting peace in the world, which he at times has made clear he wants to do, in those efforts I would want to support him.

The United States is a power player on the world level, we have to recognize that, and sometimes decisions are made more based on economics than on human dignity and human support, but [we have to] continue to challenge and to raise some questions and to see the best way to do that.